• Re: The stay home and not wor

    From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Monday, February 07, 2022 00:42:28
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sun Feb 06 2022 01:10 pm

    Although I disgree with the religiou aspect of this, it is nevertheless a valuable lesson. Unification of the world under one
    power would be a horrid dystopia. No human being, or organisation, should have so much power over so many people.


    Borders, nations, separation are good. We can stop over-compensating for what a few Germans believed in the last century now.

    There are so many valuable lessons in the Bible which are relevant today even to those who believe it to be nothing more than a collection of fictitious fables.

    If one person was to raised to a grandiose height and handed the crown of order to become the patriarch of the World... we'd be living in a despotic dystopia.

    Power can never be fully consolidated.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Monday, February 07, 2022 17:08:31
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Boraxman on Fri Feb 04 2022 06:51 am

    Boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    That is a particularly Western idea, the unification of things, or as I prefer to call it, the homogenisation of humanity under one power.

    Hindu and buddhist texts both mention the one-ness of God, as well as the oneness of creation - we're part of the whole, and helping one another is ultimately helping yourself.

    That though is seperate to believing that everything unique has to be mashed together into one homogeneous paste? Surely believing in a one-ness with God doesn't preclude us living our own separate lives, keeping our own identities, our own, if you well, unique expressions of creation.

    That is what I think is the problem, not that we acknowledge that we are part of the same creation, but this desire to homogenise and destroy diversity for political expedience.

    I don't think combining religions is an admirable goal. Almost all religious persecution is about doing exactly that, getting everyone to subscribe to the same religion.

    It's about theoretically combining religions while allowing each to flourish, and admittedly the devil's in the details. We may learn that religious people are in fact not spiritual and instead have material goals.


    ... Think of the radio

    I can't see how that would world. Yes, people may acknowledge that people who are religious share some base spirituality, a sense the world means more than just that which is materially presented to us. But the devil is in the details, and it is reconciling the details which proves fatal.

    The most bitter religious rivalries aren't even between two different religions, but between two sects of the same branch. People will kill over the small details.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Andeddu on Monday, February 07, 2022 17:14:26
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Mon Feb 07 2022 12:42 am

    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sun Feb 06 2022 01:10 pm

    Although I disgree with the religiou aspect of this, it is nevertheless a valuable lesson. Unification of the world under one
    power would be a horrid dystopia. No human being, or organisation, shoul have so much power over so many people.


    Borders, nations, separation are good. We can stop over-compensating for what a few Germans believed in the last century now.

    There are so many valuable lessons in the Bible which are relevant today eve to those who believe it to be nothing more than a collection of fictitious fables.

    If one person was to raised to a grandiose height and handed the crown of or to become the patriarch of the World... we'd be living in a despotic dystopi

    Power can never be fully consolidated.


    People today are very bigoted against people from the past. They think anyone before 2001 was an ignorant, bigot, unaware of the world, how it worked, the problems we face etc. So they just reject out of hand what they said, believed, learned.

    The reality is, that tradition, culture and religion are the products of generations, centuries of trial and error, hard learned lessons. Yet some 19 year old girl attends some college and thinks she knows better.

    We would all do well to realise that the values and ideas held by people in the past, where done with with good reason.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Monday, February 07, 2022 17:21:38
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Feb 07 2022 05:08 pm

    That though is seperate to believing that everything unique has to be mashed together into one homogeneous paste? Surely believing in a one-ness with Go doesn't preclude us living our own separate lives, keeping our own identitie our own, if you well, unique expressions of creation.

    That is what I think is the problem, not that we acknowledge that we are par of the same creation, but this desire to homogenise and destroy diversity fo political expedience.


    I think that, in practice, practicioners who believe variations of one-ness with the Universe are more interested in achieving it themselves. This is why they practice discipline, restraint and self-sacrifice: they reject distractions that are only good for satisfying egos (which are pointless, because the ego is an illusion that does not exist).

    It is pointless to want a pile of gold for yourself, when your existence as an independent spiritual unit is an illusion.

    When your beliefs operate in this environment, I think wanting to put everybody under the same political regime is completely out of scope. Governments and such are just a pathetic attempt from things that believe they are spiritually independent to control other things which believe they are spiritually independent, but that is hogwash, because the tyrant who gets people shot for disagreeing and the people getting shot are ultimately the same spiritual unit.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Monday, February 07, 2022 17:53:19
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Feb 07 2022 05:14 pm

    People today are very bigoted against people from the past. They think anyo before 2001 was an ignorant, bigot, unaware of the world, how it worked, the problems we face etc. So they just reject out of hand what they said, believed, learned.

    The reality is, that tradition, culture and religion are the products of generations, centuries of trial and error, hard learned lessons. Yet some 1 year old girl attends some college and thinks she knows better.

    We would all do well to realise that the values and ideas held by people in past, where done with with good reason.


    There is a bit of everything.

    A lot of ideas and practices were just counterproductive, or were very helpful only for the people pushing it. Others made a lot whole of sense back in the day, but became obsolete.

    For example, feudalism and feudal armies made sense in the 10th Century, because it tied together nobles with common interests with loyalty oaths and made it so areas dominated by a given type of culture could count with the protection of a warrior class capable of fending off invasive threats. Since keeping a standing army sucked very hard (wars ruined territories, because nobody was tending the crops if all the men were chopping heads), having a group of knights for keeping order and turning the peasants into an army only if need be was an ok deal.

    Once monarchies could afford siege machines nobody else could, feudalism became obsolete because monarchs no longer needed the old loyalty sistem to ensure the obedience of nobles and their subjects. Any noble who disagreed with whoever happened to have the artillery sets that Century would see his house bombed to the ground with no recourse. History classes always point to the rise of the burgoise class as the downfall of the feudal system, but it was standing monarchist armies which turned nobles from warlords and defenders of the land into puppets.

    On the other hand, I think some ideas from the 5th Century Before Christ are still valid. A lot of Europeans look at 2nd Ammendmendt proponents as if they had losed it, but the idea that only slaves and non-citizens would allow themselves to be forbidden from bearing weapons already existed, in a way or another, in ancient Athens, Sparta, the Republican Rome, various Viking folks... the idea still survives in a number of Asian places to this day. And here is something funny: when a culture stops being combative, they abbandon the idea that free people has weapons, weapons get eliminated from society, and that culture collapes under the push of external threats. I recommend the book Ultima Ratio Regis (if it exists in anything else than Spanish), because it makes this specific case despite the fact the author despises pro-gun rights groups.

    So, in conclusion, we can extract valid lessons from the past, but not all that is past is golden either or would be golden if brought back.


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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Arelor on Tuesday, February 08, 2022 20:25:17
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Boraxman on Mon Feb 07 2022 05:21 pm

    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Feb 07 2022 05:08 pm

    That though is seperate to believing that everything unique has to be mas together into one homogeneous paste? Surely believing in a one-ness with doesn't preclude us living our own separate lives, keeping our own identi our own, if you well, unique expressions of creation.

    That is what I think is the problem, not that we acknowledge that we are of the same creation, but this desire to homogenise and destroy diversity political expedience.


    I think that, in practice, practicioners who believe variations of one-ness with the Universe are more interested in achieving it themselves. This is wh they practice discipline, restraint and self-sacrifice: they reject distractions that are only good for satisfying egos (which are pointless, because the ego is an illusion that does not exist).

    It is pointless to want a pile of gold for yourself, when your existence as independent spiritual unit is an illusion.

    When your beliefs operate in this environment, I think wanting to put everyb under the same political regime is completely out of scope. Governments and such are just a pathetic attempt from things that believe they are spiritual independent to control other things which believe they are spiritually independent, but that is hogwash, because the tyrant who gets people shot fo disagreeing and the people getting shot are ultimately the same spiritual un


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    That is a description of a very personal and individual spirituality. It can superficially sound like a view that we should all unite externally, but it is actually antithetical to that.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Arelor on Tuesday, February 08, 2022 20:36:10
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Boraxman on Mon Feb 07 2022 05:53 pm

    There is a bit of everything.

    A lot of ideas and practices were just counterproductive, or were very helpf only for the people pushing it. Others made a lot whole of sense back in the day, but became obsolete.

    For example, feudalism and feudal armies made sense in the 10th Century, because it tied together nobles with common interests with loyalty oaths and made it so areas dominated by a given type of culture could count with the protection of a warrior class capable of fending off invasive threats. Since keeping a standing army sucked very hard (wars ruined territories, because nobody was tending the crops if all the men were chopping heads), having a group of knights for keeping order and turning the peasants into an army onl if need be was an ok deal.

    Once monarchies could afford siege machines nobody else could, feudalism bec obsolete because monarchs no longer needed the old loyalty sistem to ensure obedience of nobles and their subjects. Any noble who disagreed with whoever happened to have the artillery sets that Century would see his house bombed the ground with no recourse. History classes always point to the rise of the burgoise class as the downfall of the feudal system, but it was standing monarchist armies which turned nobles from warlords and defenders of the lan into puppets.

    On the other hand, I think some ideas from the 5th Century Before Christ are still valid. A lot of Europeans look at 2nd Ammendmendt proponents as if the had losed it, but the idea that only slaves and non-citizens would allow themselves to be forbidden from bearing weapons already existed, in a way or another, in ancient Athens, Sparta, the Republican Rome, various Viking folks... the idea still survives in a number of Asian places to this day. An here is something funny: when a culture stops being combative, they abbandon the idea that free people has weapons, weapons get eliminated from society and that culture collapes under the push of external threats. I recommend th book Ultima Ratio Regis (if it exists in anything else than Spanish), becaus it makes this specific case despite the fact the author despises pro-gun rig groups.

    So, in conclusion, we can extract valid lessons from the past, but not all t is past is golden either or would be golden if brought back.

    I think in part our view of how companies work still has a feudalist mentality.
    We have to balance Traditionalism (standing by culture and tradition) with Progressivism, and making objective assessments of our long held cultural traditions and values. The problem is that sometimes it is not apparent why we held certain beliefs until long after we've abandoned them. I've done a cursory search for Ultima Ratio Regis, and get some hits, but nothing thta looks like an English translation of the book.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Boraxman on Tuesday, February 08, 2022 04:54:35
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to Arelor on Tue Feb 08 2022 08:36 pm

    I think in part our view of how companies work still has a feudalist mentali
    We have to balance Traditionalism (standing by culture and tradition) with Progressivism, and making objective assessments of our long held cultural traditions and values. The problem is that sometimes it is not apparent why held certain beliefs until long after we've abandoned them. I've done a cursory search for Ultima Ratio Regis, and get some hits, but nothing thta looks like an English translation of the book.


    This would be the book. No English translations that I can find :-(

    https://www.librarything.com/work/11346946

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Tuesday, February 08, 2022 18:10:55
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Mon Feb 07 2022 05:14 pm

    People today are very bigoted against people from the past. They think anyone before 2001 was an ignorant, bigot, unaware of the world, how it worked, the problems we face etc. So they just reject out of hand what they said, believed, learned.

    The reality is, that tradition, culture and religion are the products of generations, centuries of trial and error, hard learned lessons. Yet some 19 year old girl attends some college and thinks she knows better.

    We would all do well to realise that the values and ideas held by people in the past, where done with with good reason.

    The culture creators were able to invert almost all of our beliefs within the span of one century. It was a very impressive undertaking when you think about it like that. The new culture that has been handed to us is destructive however is packaged in such a way that the masses believe to be good and moral.

    Homogeneity and standardisation of all systems, beliefs and cultures in the name of ending all disputues will take us down a dark path.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to Andeddu on Wednesday, February 09, 2022 19:49:02
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Andeddu to Boraxman on Tue Feb 08 2022 06:10 pm

    The culture creators were able to invert almost all of our beliefs within th span of one century. It was a very impressive undertaking when you think abo it like that. The new culture that has been handed to us is destructive howe is packaged in such a way that the masses believe to be good and moral.

    Homogeneity and standardisation of all systems, beliefs and cultures in the name of ending all disputues will take us down a dark path.


    These inversions happen from time to time. Values are turned upside down for power. Our current "values" are as such as to benefit those one power, namely globalist government and corporations.

    The fight against "Racism" isn't about tolerance, its about creating social conditions which benefit the elite. Destroying the family structure creates dependence and consolidates power. Power has shifted and as such, the values have had to change.

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  • From Andeddu@VERT/AMSTRAD to Boraxman on Wednesday, February 09, 2022 18:34:08
    Re: Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Wed Feb 09 2022 07:49 pm

    These inversions happen from time to time. Values are turned upside down for power. Our current "values" are as such as to benefit those one power, namely globalist government and corporations.

    The fight against "Racism" isn't about tolerance, its about creating social conditions which benefit the elite. Destroying the family structure creates dependence and consolidates power. Power has shifted and as such, the values have had to change.

    It is all divide and rule. If we are too busy fighting each other we won't be able to see the forest for the trees.

    Communism, as a system, was similar. The misguided people were told it would create a worker's paradise. The big lie was that it did not eradicate the power elite, rather it empowered them.

    In a Communist state, it is the inner circle of the government along with the international bankers who hold power and authority over the people. It was never designed to be a worker's paradise.

    The current Western system of corporatism or corporate facism is a terrible system which is corrupt and cannot be confalted with pure free-market Capitalism. It is the end product of free-market Capitalism though where corporations have become so powerful and influential they are able to impose laws and regulations through governments. This is why, despite claiming to be Capitalist entities, they promote Left Wing progressive values pertaining to collectivism.

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  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to SYS 64738 on Sunday, February 13, 2022 20:31:00
    In essence, raising the minimum wage doesn't lift up the poor, it pulls down everyone else. Simply put, being a millionaire wouldn't be so desirable if everyone was a millionaire.
    Yes, each November in California the fast food joints raise prices
    another 5-10% to compensate for the min wage increases. Then I also
    noticed in Feburary prices rose even again likely due to the cost of the commodities.


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  • From SYS64738@VERT/DIBZ to MATTHEW MUNSON on Monday, February 14, 2022 09:05:05
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to SYS 64738 on Sun Feb 13 2022 20:31:00

    In essence, raising the minimum wage doesn't lift up the poor, it pulls down everyone else. Simply put, being a millionaire wouldn't be so desirable if everyone was a millionaire.
    Yes, each November in California the fast food joints raise prices
    another 5-10% to compensate for the min wage increases. Then I also
    noticed in Feburary prices rose even again likely due to the cost of the commodities.

    Exactly. It's like having a tub of water and trying to transfer water from the left side of the tub to the right side so there is more water on the right. It never works.

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  • From Moejj@VERT/AMIGAC to Boraxman on Tuesday, March 22, 2022 12:34:46
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Jan 20 2022 22:53:29


    If anyone wants to earn more than minimum wage, needs to learn a trade to support pay better than minimum wage. That isn't the responsibility of anyone but the individual.

    I used to earn minimum wage. I didn't like it. Did I whine, cry, demand more money for jobs anyone without skill or education could do? No. Of course not. I went to a trade school. I haven't earned minimum wage since.

    Went back to school, got my Master's degree. Now I make six figures.

    My wage, my responsibility.

    Nobody working at McDonald's or retail deserves $15/h. Minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage. It is what it's called - minimum.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moejj on Tuesday, March 22, 2022 13:26:04
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Moejj to Boraxman on Tue Mar 22 2022 12:34 pm

    Nobody working at McDonald's or retail deserves $15/h. Minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage. It is what it's called - minimum.

    In order to say something is "minimum" though, I'd think you'd have to define what it's minimum for? One thing I've wondered is whether minimum wage was supposed to be a minimum for being able to support oneself and pay their bills etc., which would imply that yes, it was meant as a minimum living wage.

    I just did a search, and this page says a minimum wage "should provide enough income to afford a living wage":
    https://bit.ly/3ul0Uv3
    Full link: https://www.thebalance.com/us-minimum-wage-what-it-is-history-and-who-must-comp ly-3306209

    Other than a living wage, for what purpose is a minimum wage meant to be minimum for?

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Tuesday, March 22, 2022 20:17:27
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Nightfox to Moejj on Tue Mar 22 2022 01:26 pm

    Other than a living wage, for what purpose is a minimum wage meant to be minimum fo

    Nightfox

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party.
    That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory
    regardless of the fact it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a
    living at all in a rich one.

    In Spain, wages per sector hit their lowest at points agreed by both the Unions and
    Employer Asociations. This is the reason why an industrial worker or a secretary will
    have the minimum wage he may earn dictated by non-government forces. It is a bit
    better than the alternative but it has the issue that the collective of Unions deciding how much people makes represent less than 20% of the workforce (and are often
    quite content to trash workers from certain sectors if it fits them).


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 08:04:46
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 2022 08:17 pm

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party. That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory regardless of the fact it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a living at all in a rich one.


    i still don't get the argument about minimum wage.
    Is this very common in other countries?

    in the usa it's just a political selling point.

    not many people are ON minimum wage. not even people at walmart.
    i know people that mop floors that make 20/hr.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Wednesday, March 23, 2022 10:06:23
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Mar 23 2022 08:04 am

    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 2022 08:17 pm

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party. That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory regardless of the fac
    it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a living at all in a rich one.


    i still don't get the argument about minimum wage.
    Is this very common in other countries?

    in the usa it's just a political selling point.

    not many people are ON minimum wage. not even people at walmart.
    i know people that mop floors that make 20/hr.

    Minimum wage seems common in countries with capital based socialism. I agree it tends to be a selling point more than a regulation that kicks into action frequently.

    My hipothesis is that the reason why minimum wage jobs are not very common is because they force employers to pay more than they are willing for certain tasks. If you think tax X is worth 2
    bucks, you are not going to pay 3 just because some Minister has told you it is worth 3.

    The theory behind minimum wages is that if you are paying 2 bucks for the task, a min cost of 3 will turn most tasks worth 2 bucks into 3 bucks tasks. The problem is a lot of employers would
    rather restructure the firm and get rid of the employee (or cease performing the task at all) rather than get the job done for more money that they think it is worth. In practice this means
    that instead of finding people being paid 3 bucks for doing something worth 2, you find an engineer getting 9999999 for doing four million tasks with a robot. And an unemployment queue five
    miles long.

    Seriously, a friend of mine did automation plans in asia, and a chief reason why they could not roll lots of automation plans in China was because chinesse workers were cheaper and more
    reliable than machines.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Thursday, March 24, 2022 20:54:00
    MRO wrote to Arelor <=-

    @MSGID: <623B1AEE.8898.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <623A7527.27798.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 2022 08:17 pm

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party. That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory regardless of the fact it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a living at all in a rich one.


    i still don't get the argument about minimum wage.
    Is this very common in other countries?

    in the usa it's just a political selling point.

    not many people are ON minimum wage. not even people at walmart.
    i know people that mop floors that make 20/hr.

    Minimum wage is made into an issue by some Right Wing "Conservative" types, but it really isn't the issue here in Australia people think it is, and our minimum wage is higher than the US.

    Consider this. The person serving you your food, or working the retail store gets paid more per hour, but we don't tip. Well, we sometimes do, but its an exception, not an expectation. The tip you pay in the US is a 'minimum wage tax', a necessary addition to make up for the fact they are paid poorly.

    We just give them a higher wage, so we don't have to worry about a surcharge whenever we buy anything where minimum wage workers are involved.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Thursday, March 24, 2022 09:54:30
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Mar 24 2022 08:54 pm

    Consider this. The person serving you your food, or working the retail store gets paid more per hour, but we don't tip. Well, we sometimes do, but its an exception, not an expectation. The tip you pay in the US is a 'minimum wage tax', a necessary addition to make up for the fact they are paid poorly.

    We just give them a higher wage, so we don't have to worry about a surcharge whenever we buy anything where minimum wage workers are involved.


    well i like to reward good service. there's times when i was ignored so they got nothing. tips arent mandatory. one thing i dont like is they are adding tipping to all kinds of food restaurants. if i go there to pick up food, i'm not tipping. there's no table service.

    a tip isnt a surcharge in the usa.
    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare.
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Friday, March 25, 2022 20:23:00
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    @MSGID: <623C8626.8921.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <623C4080.55683.dove-gen@bbs.mozysswamp.org>
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Mar 24 2022 08:54 pm

    Consider this. The person serving you your food, or working the retail store gets paid more per hour, but we don't tip. Well, we sometimes do, but its an exception, not an expectation. The tip you pay in the US is a 'minimum wage tax', a necessary addition to make up for the fact they are paid poorly.

    We just give them a higher wage, so we don't have to worry about a surcharge whenever we buy anything where minimum wage workers are involved.


    well i like to reward good service. there's times when i was ignored so they got nothing. tips arent mandatory. one thing i dont like is they are adding tipping to all kinds of food restaurants. if i go there to
    pick up food, i'm not tipping. there's no table service.

    a tip isnt a surcharge in the usa.
    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    I haven't been, but my wife was there for a year, and she says tipping, if not mandatory, is expected. The workers are reliant on tips. Sometimes it is on the bill. I saw this in Europe as well. In Australia, we generally don't, unless there is an exception (or your rich). I do tip taxi drivers, but for a meal, a coffee, no, very rarely.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/CFBBS to MRO on Friday, March 25, 2022 08:34:00
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    That's usually for something out of the ordinary - like a very large group, or a birthday party - where the server will be doing more work than normal and the place wants to make sure that the server is compensated for the extra work.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Friday, March 25, 2022 15:18:24
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Mar 25 2022 08:34 am

    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    That's usually for something out of the ordinary - like a very large group, or a birthday party - where the server will be doing more work than normal and the place wants to make sure that the server is compensated for the extra work.

    in the uk or the united states?

    i dont go out to eat a lot, especially after the pandemic but i know of a couple of places where it's the standard. they also have places for x amount of people have it kick in.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dr. What on Friday, March 25, 2022 19:50:40
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Mar 25 2022 08:34 am

    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    That's usually for something out of the ordinary - like a very large group, a birthday party - where the server will be doing more work than normal and place wants to make sure that the server is compensated for the extra work.



    Here they may add a % for the extra services, but not call it "tip", in case of special events and the like.

    We don't tip much in Spain. Tips are reserved for outstanding work only. Waiters here are better paid than in places with tip culture because tips don't enter the equation at all.

    Which makes getting a tip at all at any service so much more special.

    When I see a "tip" included in a bill, it looks very artificial to me. It makes me not want to consume in bars abroad.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Friday, March 25, 2022 18:47:48
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Dr. What on Fri Mar 25 2022 07:50 pm

    When I see a "tip" included in a bill, it looks very artificial to me. It makes me not want to consume in bars abroad.

    I feel like if they really need that additional money to stay in business, they might as well just charge more for their food & beverages up front. Then it wouldn't really seem like bait-and-switch pricing where you need to add a bit more in later.

    Nightfox

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/CFBBS to MRO on Saturday, March 26, 2022 18:31:00
    MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

    in the uk or the united states?

    United States.

    i dont go out to eat a lot, especially after the pandemic but i know of
    a couple of places where it's the standard. they also have places for x amount of people have it kick in.

    I've seen a wider range of tipping recently.

    Usually, though, it's a at-customer's-discretion tip of x% of the bill (but if the service is really bad, no tip or a tiny tip - like 2 cents).

    Some other places have started to "push" the tip jar a little more heavily. I saw this before the scamdemic, where some places (like little coffee shops) made a little contest with 2 jars and the customer "votes" for one of the options by putting money into the option he likes best.

    But I've seen the tip jar next to the cash register far more often in the last year.

    But the only time that I've seen a tip "mandated" was in restaurants when we had an abnormally large group.


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